Glazer: Former KU Coach Roy Williams Leaves Bill Self in the Dust

So much for KU’s delusions of grandeur…

North Carolina coach Roy Williams just moved to the No. 2 spot behind Duke’s Mike Krzyzewski on active coaches with national championships. Roy won his third in nine Final Fours, with his NC squad beating Gonzaga 71-65 last night.

So how does this make KU’s Bill Self  feel and look?

Roy had four trips to the Final Four with Kansas but didn’t win a single one. Self has two in his 14 seasons and won the one in 2008. That said, Self just went into the College Basketball Hall of Fame.

Now I’ll let you in on a little secret, that one championship granted Bill the love Roy was missing at Kansas with zero championships. However now with three at NC, Williams is in the chips.

I think Williams was more relieved than simply happy…maybe a bit of both.

But man, you can see how this grind has aged the former KU head coach. He’s aged a ton in just the last few seasons.

And now with Williams in his mid 60’s and Self his mid 50’s, you have to wonder. Will Self ever even win another championship?

Based on what we’ve seen thus far it looks like a longer shot than mos peoplet figured after his big win in 2008.

Next year Self will try and break the UCLA record of 13 straight league titles.

It would appear that this lofty goal is what Self may be best remembered for at Kansas.

True, he has many years left to coach, and may still get there with another title – perhaps two – but that seems a million miles away now. Kansas just seems to be a not-so-great team when it comes to the post season.

KU has been a No. 1 seed seven times in 11 seasons with just one win and  two Final Fours. So yes, it stings a bit.

Now only time will tell if Self can take Kansas to at least one more national championship. The talent seems to be there nearly every year, but at all slips away at the big dance nearly every year.

Hey, at least KU’s in the hunt every year. Maybe that’s good enough for the wine and cheese KU set.

But let’s give Roy Williams credit, he’s proven to be one of the all-time best…at North Carolina.
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13 Responses to Glazer: Former KU Coach Roy Williams Leaves Bill Self in the Dust

  1. Guy Who Says What Others Think says:

    We’ll see what everyone thinks of Roy and UNC when/if the NCAA hammers them for decades of academic fraud. But they are a “blueblood” so chances are they will get nothing done to them. UNC is a disgrace, and Roy Williams is a hypocritical pile of garbage.

    Oh and save me the “Everyone does it” crap.

    • Goose13 says:

      Everyone does it. Which is sad. Had to be said. Agree with you 100%. Also, if I do recall. The chancellor at the time became KU’s chancellor, who just retired.

      • Guy Who Says What Others Think says:

        I think that schools do indeed have some “softer” classes for athletes, but what UNC was doing was beyond the pale.

    • Phaedrus says:

      I’m still trying to figure out how the coaches can “care” so much about their players, and then steer them towards majors that might qualify them for a job at McDonalds.

  2. Brian says:

    Not being a Craig hater … but just for the record, Kansas just won its 13th straight conference championship under Bill Self — not its 12th straight.
    Now, for some rational discussion about your supposition about Roy leaving Bill Self in the dust (and I know you didn’t write that headline — Hearne did).
    I went to KU, was a walk-on (for one ridiculous semester) when Ted Owens was coach and am as big a Kansas basketball fan as there is.
    I was disappointed when Roy left in but was never part of that slightly irrational/ slightly psychotic group who called him a traitor and rooted against him. Good Lord, Roy Williams gave Kansas fans 15 ridiculously fantastic seasons.
    I was thrilled when Bill Self replaced him, and just shook my head and rolled my eyes in the first few years when there was a contingent of the fan base who actually wanted to get rid of Bill Self.
    Now to the point: I think it’s a tad too soon (or maybe comparing apples to oranges) to be saying Roy has left Bill Self in the dust. Roy at KU in 15 years: 418 wins; 4 Final Fours; 0 national championships. Bill Self at KU in 14 years: 416 wins wins; 2 Final Fours; 1 national championship.
    Roy has done very well at North Carolina for the last 14 years. Three national championships in 9 years — not much more needs to be said. But let’s wait and see what Bill Self does in the next 14 years. I think we can all agree they’re both fantastic coaches and KU fans — crazy and obliviously entitled as some of them can be — should be thankful they were along for the ride with both of these coaches.

  3. Kerouac says:

    “KU has been a No. 1 seed seven times in 11 seasons with just one win and two Final Fours.”

    – res ipsa loquitur, i.e., ‘the thing speaks for itself’. To wit: what is ‘success’? Placing, horse racing? In the money, golf? Reaching post season to but realize a losers share NFL, MLB, NBA and/or other sports to include college, basketball?

    Unless you espouse a ‘celebration for participation’ trophy for your trouble, as in ‘we are the Champions’ our conference/division etc., the losers lament football, baseball, basketball. ‘Yeah, but he reached post season!’ Whoopee-do. So did 67 other coaches NCAA post season – 68 teams in CBB, 16 NBA, 16 NHL, 12 NFL and 10 more in MLB; the parlance, mediocrity reigns/no team left behind. More teams do not make games better, said merely cheapens the product. As I’ve said before, the day is coming when ‘every’ team will make post season, out of economic nece$$ity every sport’s survival, regular season perfunctory.

    Compare with yesteryear: 50 years ago/1967, NCAA post season was made up of only 23 teams, about 1/3 as many the copious amount make it today. Other sports up until latter 60’s, 4 teams each league made post season to determine that sports Champion, surviving two playing for all the marbles in lieu an modern exercise in money-making nonsense. Why modern day sports have been compromised, results as the game itself diminished across the spectrum, result.

    Analogy, those who revere the ‘we made the post season’ tack are the same folks who embrace ‘Chiefs finished just two wins from the Superbowl’ rationalization; the also-ran line forms to the right all the other ‘uncrowned Champions’ who proliferate this morass of sports teams century 21.

    Case Bill Self (still coaching), HOF nod is premature at best, reward also-ran at worst. Self has won a Championship (so noted/polite applause), but conversely, Hank Stram won two* Championships/played for a third, but had to wait 26 years post retirement to be enshrined the NFL Hall of Fame. Yet, coach Bud Grant was enshrined almost an decade before Stram, yet ‘never’ won an single Championship NFL. Ditto a Marv Levy, who made four Superbowl’s like Grant, eight between them, yet, neither won even one. That both are in the NFL Hall of Fame is ridiculous, my opine. [ *1962 Texans ] Some extol future enshrinement for Andy Reid (still trying, he got to a Championship Game once and lost) & Marty Schottenheimer, who never even got there. Upshot: if we lower the bar any further, an inch-worm will be unable limbo its way under said.

    Self’s 24 years coaching with one Championship/.763 winning % is, grand scheme of modern day sports, should be Hall of Fame questionable, unless ending within sight an finish line in lieu passing it more than once, the measure. Don McCafferty won an Superbowl his rookie season & coached his second year team the AFC Championship Game as well but isn’t in the Hall of Fame. Neither too Tom Flores, Jimmy Johnson, and George Seifert in the Hall of Fame – each of whom won two Superbowl’s… rhyme or reason the exclusion the trois, curious.

    Comparison, Roy Williams 29 years have resulted in 3 Championships, .791 winning % (comparison, John Wooden won 10 Championships his 29 years, an .804 winning %. It took Wooden 18 years to win his first, ended winning 10 Championships during his final 12 years, Lombardi-esque (Vince won 5 Championships in his final 7 years.)

    It used to be a matter separating the best from the rest; nowadays, distinction any is minute, or, put another, tantamount saying Manute Bol was Hall of Fame worthy as Wilt Chamberlain because both played Center and both also made it to post season.

    Reiterate, what is success? A coach helms a team reaches a Championship Game 4x, another coach and his team once. The latter wins his only while former goes belly up, ‘distinction’ as easy as paint by the numbers if “you play to win the game.” If not and participation be criteria, penultimate is on par ultimate, and distinction is irrelevant – and irrelevant is what modern sports has become.

    • Goose13 says:

      You are comparing pro hall of fame to college hall of fame. Requirements are different.

      • Kerouac says:

        Yes I am: ‘success’ is the measure, not venue or any other. Don’t let the forest of sports venues, teams, coaches & players obscure your view the trees: winning and losing is ‘not’ different & never will be – the requirements remain static.

  4. CG says:

    Guys to be fair KU has had a great program with several good coaches including Self and Roy….their fans love them and support them every year. So thats that.

  5. Glazer knows zero about sports.

    • CG says:

      Predicting games or breaking down whats going on is all opinion…as for me I have produced 5 sports films, under the Champions Forever banner…and have been all over sports talk shows for years on NFL, College football, boxing, baseball etc…so I think its likely I know something about sports. Again opinions are just that, everyone has one.

  6. CG says:

    Hey Baby boom guy, we all have opinions on sports, who is gonna win, why, etc…sometimes we are right, sometimes not…that’s for all sports guys…I have done some things in the sports world from producing sports pix like Champions Forever and being on hundreds of sports tv and radio shows…so I know something…if you don’t agree with my takes fine…

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