I was out of town when the Shawnee gun shop robbery and shootout took place last week, and I didn’t go back and read the news stories about it…
Although from reading Hearne’s and Rich Steele’s pieces on KC Confidential, I see that store owner Jon Bieker’s decision to emerge from a back room during the robbery has come under close scrutiny. I’m sure that many members of the public have put themselves in his position and thought about what they would have done.
Hearne has asked me to weigh in on this, and because I’m like him – a former reporter – I’m willing to offer an opinion on just about anything. (When we were at The Star, reporters had to repress their opinions and approach everything with fairness and even handedness in mind.)
At any rate…I don’t pretend to possess the Wisdom of Solomon on this, but I would put my chips somewhere between Hearne’s position that Bieker should have stayed in the back room and Steele’s assertion that Bieker did the right thing by coming out.
Certainly, Bieker did the right thing by coming out.
It would have been a cowardly husband, indeed, who remained ensconced in the back room while his wife was getting robbed up front. In addition, I think it’s likely, as Steele propounds, that Becky Bieker got struck in the head with a weapon before the shooting started.
Once the bullets started flying, any means of attack short of firepower would have gone out the window.
But here’s where I differ from Steele.
Just as it seems logical to presume that Becky Bieker was struck before the shooting began, it’s just as logical to assume that her husband emerged from the back either pointing a gun or shooting one.
And that in all likelihood was his fatal mistake.
Yes, of course, he should have come out, but putting myself in his shoes, my first thought would have been to cooperate.
A lifetime of having been advised not to resist people pointing weapons at me would have told me to come out slowly, with my hands up and palms facing forward. I would like to think I would have said something like, “OK, we’re not making any trouble for you. Take whatever you want — guns, money and anything else — and, please, be on your way.”
Unfortunately, being a gun owner and gun carrier, Jon Bieker likely wasn’t conditioned to accommodating robbers.
To me, that’s where the pro-gun, National Rifle Association philosophy that gun carrying makes for a safer society (because you have the means to get the bad guy before he gets you) falls completely apart.
We’ve all heard the tired and lame NRA refrain, “Guns don’t kill people, people kill people.”
Last Friday’s incident puts the lie to that mantra.
We can all understand Becky Bieker’s devastation at the loss of her husband, but her statement that, “He saved my life because he carried a firearm” is – sorry to say – totally off base.
If that incident had taken place in a hobby or hardware store and there were no guns around, other than those in the hands of the perps, in all likelihood no one would have died.
As a local police official told Hearne, “Most of the time, they (armed robbers) are just going to rob you and be on their way.”
Given the setting – a gun store — and given Jon Bieker’s predilection for taking up arms, gunplay was almost a foregone conclusion.
He probably lost his life — and could have cost his wife hers — because of his philosophy and because he was packing.
Mr. Fitzpatrick, obviously you have never met a young negro male ! The mistake the gunstore owner made was not shooting from cover. Plain and simple. I guess that you kale eating pussies would rather stand back as your wife/daughter gets beat in the head with a pistol…..and then probably shot.
If the young hood rats will shoot innocent 6 month old babies, 7 year olds in 7/11’s, and a 14 year old watching TV…..
Mr. Fitzpatrick, the Polar Bear would suggest you come out to the Zoo on any afternoon and watch the primate enclosure for a few minutes. You then will have a better understanding as to the thinking of the gun store owner.
Again, the mistake was not shooting from cover, not cowering in the back like a Johnson County husband in a j/o booth at Bazookas on Monday afternoon.
Geez, who says racism is not alive and well in Kansas City?
Truth I guess seems like racism to some I guess.
Go PB.
That’s a lot of guessing, Truth
At this point, there is no categorical evidence from witnesses stating that she was hit before or after the first shot. Everything is conjecture until the facts are known.
These pos running our streets, are a plague, a biblical curse that destroy any and everything they touch.
” (When we were at The Star, reporters had to repress their opinions and approach everything with fairness and even handedness in mind.)”
Bullsh*t. The presumption by most of the hoi polloi that the MSM tells the truth with no agenda is the imprimatur and de facto permission for those millions of “Gentle Giants” to pillage at will, the lives and treasure of law abiding citizens. That same permission, given now, to avoid and ignore “compliance” when encountering law enforcement will open the door to new and more senseless atrocities while the Kansas City Star’s reporters, continue to eulogize Emmit Till dozens of times a year. The complete abrogation of the 4th estate to report the dramatically disproportionate amount of African American criminality, while at the same time, obfuscating, excusing and 2nd partying the blame for that same criminality, is, again, de facto permission for that level of crime to continue and increase.
There is now, in the streets of America, a low level black on white intifada that goes unreported with the exception of a few guys like Colin Flaherty and Jack Cashill. Were the situation reversed, those sanctimonious, self righteous reporters, so fair and even handed, would be apoplectic in their ceaseless search for the genesis and perpetrators guilty for the slaughter.
That is the most salient example of the disgraceful, contemptible, incessant Progressive spin that the Star and a legion of so called “journalists” puke into the hypnotized chickens in the American barnyard.
Tell Jenee and Louie to ask for a raise. Anyone who can jump through hoops on that one trick pony for decades has my vote for the “journalist” of the year.
Owee, Chuck!
chucks right…we know nothng about the incident…whether the wife
was being beaten. ..from photos she didn’t look beaten…..
so we can’t assume that anything happened prior to the shootout.
But come o,n cashill….the guy who has more conspiracy theories than
alex jones…he’s a true fruitcake !
But let us remember when we read chucks stories…his tales of
friend and himself battered. He made choices to work in a
7 11 on troost (not real bright)….run the most dangerous areas
of the city in terms of crime….work in the bad neighborhoods….
so if you make those decisions don’t bitch when something happens.
We do know this….not many of you would really stand and fight,
SMARTMAN CHICKENED OUT! ANOTHER KCC WRITER CHICKENED
OUT WHEN THEY MOUTHED OFF.
You really think these guys who talked of all their guns and weapons
would have done anything? wrong!
Eachsituation is different….and each person makes their own
decision.
These guys who write on here have no idea what they’d do. Stick their
chests out and make people people think they’re tough.
Hey gunslingers (or guys who couldn’t shoot straight) have your
way with a robber. Stats say seldom are their exchanges. Forget about
your wife and kids safety. You be a big man and show them who’s boss.
Read the article posted on the store’s website. They tell you what you
should do. Maybe the owner didn’t listen to his own words.
May the man rest in peace and his family find peace in their world.
I must be coming down with something…
I absolutely, totally agree with Harley on this comment. Did some really powerful comet just pass close by or something? Or the moon shifted dramatically maybe?
Harley I never asked, nor do I expect or want anyone to feel sorry for my many unpleasant and violent encounters with African Americans. I grew up at 37th and Chestnut, then moved to Ruskin until I had to go into the service. I had to work my way through college and took whatever job was available. We were and still are, lunch pail lower middle class folks and far, far from the pecuniarily insouciant JoCo rubes you run with. It wasn’t as much a decision as a necessity and I took jobs where I could find them.
I am not “bitchin” I am just telling it the way it is.
you have a choice…you obviously made the wrong ones
when working in high crime stores and areas.
that’s your choice….don’t blame anyone but yourself.
You obviously can’t write, can you read?
Brutal…, just brutal.
you’re obviously stupid!
71st and troost? 7-11
no wonder you’re a kkk racist. You probably
charged the kids an extra dime for a slurpy!
Chuck thanks for your service. Unlike Hearne many of us appreciate the sacrifice it takes to give us the right to have these opinions. Even Hearnes but you’ll never hear a thanks from him.
Thanks CCoop, much appreciated, but, the truth is, Hearne has more than thanked me many times for my family’s service in the military, in person and in print.
Thanks again.
🙂
you’re right coop….I mentioned my 1000% appreciation
for chucks service to this nation. That will never ever
change. For that service I have thanked him several
times.
And yes…without the millions of men and women
who fought and who died protecting our freedoms
this blog…our free speech…our freedoms would have
been in doubt.
God bless America!
Well Coop…
As Chuck knows, I was in the Navy CB’s to be exact.
Oh and, I took combat training from the Marines in Gulfport, Mississippi.
was glaze in the army…he’s the Vietnam
era age….or did he get deferments?
or even Wilson…is he a vet? never hear him
talk about his “war” stories. He was of age
to serve in Vietnam. nad Hearne…you were
in the cb’s in missisippi……
I was too young to serve …never got drafted
…they stopped the drft before I turned 18.
Poor baby…
Nope, no Army for Craig. Don’t think Wilson served either. He can weigh in if that’s not correct.
Yeah Chuck, you could have been a high dollar man-whore like harlinator and lived in tony joco.
LOL….
Hey, look fukker, like the rest of your lies, no one on here has ever challenged me to a fight. If you and your ball-less, anonymous coward ass self would like to be the first, pick the time and place Asswipe.
sorry sir…glaze and you got into it on kcc.
he challenged and you backed off because you
may not have had your auto weapon at the time.
no big deal bud. Move on. just don’t screw with
glaze or he’ll kick your a$$ all over joco.
setle down…if I had the time I’d get the comments
and even glaze mentioned it one of his comments
recently.
I own you sucker!!!!…you’re still worried that I wrote a
“writer” back down from glaze.
get a life!
Remember; he who laughs last?
Hard rain, buddy, hard rain. You’re going to eat your own words.
ni big deal….none of uswouldtangle with
glaze.
Wilson…relax…if you promise to relax we’ll
be okay.
just jiving like you jive me….
if you have any qiestions contact me at
law4life@ yahoo.com.
you wrote some good stuff…like that we could
get abeer….
its 2015…..anewyear….
again…nothing personal but glaze mentioned it also..
let it drop…lets discuss issues which is more
important….
smile…itsmlk day….how come you’re not down
at the parade.
Looks like Glazer has pointed out once the perps have the drop on you and have the guns pointed at your head or your body it would be completely stupid to try and draw. You lost already, that’s when you use your wits to try and make sure nobody gets shot.
Anyone that says anything different is an idiot.
I also am with the dude on this point.
Why CCoop and a few other of the trigger happy types don’t get this I’ll never know.
So if i’m trigger happy then you are without a doubt narcissistic to the point of standing in judgement of people you know nothing about while ignoring your own hypocrisy.
You must feel like a real big man to foster a testosterone fueled felon’s visions of grandeur to pimp his criminal legacy. While being so pure to stand in judgement of a man that showed more courage than you, by your own compliant advice, are capable.
What you fail to realize is you have no right, nor earned the right, to second guess Biekers actions based on your assumptions and the “advice” of a cop.
Your free to comply when starring down the barrel of a gun all you want when it’s your life and family on the line. You only started down this path when the Star devoted too much print area to his memory. Since you have yet to get over the fact the Star doesn’t need you anymore and is better off without you.
The dude is right on target.
Anything we say at this point is conjecture. The guy may have tried the wits tactic until he saw his wife get assaulted- I know I would have a problem restraining myself if someone hit my wife. He may have seen it going south after the assault or one of the perps may have had an itchy trigger finger. We don’t know.
Very true.
four gentle giants arrested in Florida today after a pawn store robbery and a home invasion where they killed two women.. I’m going to go out on a limb and say the women probably didn’t resist.. Luckily since its guns that kill people and not people who kill people, we can all breathe a collective sigh of relief
The “Gentle Giants” were suffering from trans-generational stress syndrome, the result of his distant ancestors being enslaved.
It wasn’t their fault.
That is a horrifying crime — the killing of the mother and daughter by intruders bearing rifles, which they had used earlier in the pawn shop robbery…If the mother and daughter had each been armed with an AK-47 and had been sitting in rocking chairs waiting for the bad guys, guns in their laps, yes, they might well have had a chance.
Thats not my point. These 4 feral animals murdered two elderly women. They weren’t a threat, one of them was in her 80’s I believe. This repeated narrative about rational businesslike armed robbers being the norm is one of the stupidest things I’ve heard since harley’s last diatribe about …well….(take your pick). My beef isn’t so much with your opinion piece, but this “Live by the gun, Die by the gun” narrative here and other sites. Someone earlier compared it to “Blaming the rape victim for wearing a short skirt”. “Statistics say don’t resist and you’ll probably, maybe, most likely be okay. Unless you aren’t. The tone of much of what has been written by Hearne and to some degree you, although you do straddle the fence some, along with some of the comments, blames the victim to one degree or another. Choosing to resist or to capitulate shouldn’t be open to judgement and fault. Unless you are the one there living in that moment, suggesting what the victim should or shouldn’t have done is the height of ignorant arrogance. A few years ago my 80 year old Aunt and Uncle were victims of a home invasion by 3 young scholars. Safely tucked away in Waldo, never saw it coming. My Uncle didnt resist, but they pistol whipped him just on principal. Concussion, broken jaw. My aunt took to sleeping days and looking out the window all night. They were never the same and both died withing the next 2 years. Statistics dont mean sh1t. Sorry for the long rant.
Mark Smith for the win!! I’m a concealed carry permit holder, and I would much rather take my chances in a shoot out than be at these punks mercy. But I do have a couple of ex wives I might have left out there.
+1
Old folks especially the ladies are really never the same after those beatings. There was a guy you all know, who in the 90’s was always on TV. Some type of mortgage stuff. I bid a job for him over on 71st in Kansas where it backs up to Tomahawk Golf Course and folks are tearing down all those ranch houses and putting up mansions on the north side. Anyway, he and his wife live in Mo. and some skolars broke into his house and beat the hell out of him and his wife. He was partially crippled and had that classic 1,000 yard stare. He was hurt far worse than she was, but she was seriously damaged.
I didn’t get the job, but they were really nice folks.
The house looks good. I hope they are still there living in it.
“lived” in Mo.
There’a big difference between a pawn shop or gun store robbery and a home invasion, Mark.
Obviously.
Did the perps shoot and kill anyone during the robbery?
Things are seldom as they seem –
Skim milk masquerades as cream.
Can’t remember who said that, but it’s always worth keeping in mind.
Fitz, the flaw with your theory is that you’re assuming that Jon acted based on emotion. I suspect not. They both were skilled self defense trainers and part of that training is to learn to distinguish the difference between a situation that is life threatening and one that simplyinvolves loss of property.
Had Jon thought that the robbery only implied loss of property I suspect he might have followed your advice and cooperated, but he didn’t. He clearly felt that this was a life-threatening situation and acted accordingly and the evidence supports his conclusion.
Since the robbery, we have heard that this same gang may have been involved in 5 other robberies with each one becoming more violent than the one before. Given that they were attacking a gun store there is no question that they would anticipate a violent confrontation and were prepared to murder those who confronted them. Common sense tells us that once the shooting started no one was punching anyone, so the attack on Becky would have been for openers. As for the notion that his mistake was not taking cover, again, he was a trained self-defense instructor, were cover available he no doubt would have used every resource available to him.
That said, the simple fact is that anyone who suggests that there was someplace to take cover is ignorant of both the store and ballistics. Some of the bullets from the firefight went through the walls of the building into the store next door. Where inside the same building could he have taken cover?
Thanks to his courage four thugs are off the streets. Thanks to his courage there are many guns that are not in the hands of other thugs. Thanks to his courage, his wife is alive. There are however four things that are truly a shame, Jon is dead and the three thugs he shot aren’t. Also sad is that our corrupt Kansas Supreme Court would protect these thugs from getting the punishment they richly deserve. But if nothing else is clear, Jon was a hero who came to the defense of his wife in the face of three armed thugs.
Amen!
“Common sense tells us that once the shooting started no one was punching anyone, so the attack on Becky would have been for openers.”
I didn’t think of that at all.
+1
I dunno, John…
This guy and his wife were hardly hardened, combat-experienced veterans.
The dude was an IT who gradually over the five years they’ve owned the biz was able to wean himself off his geeky paycheck job into working full time at their store.
I think you’re giving him way too much credit for being cool headed, too.
Nobody is cool headed when the unexpected hit and the adrenaline is coursing thru their veins. Look at all the mistakes cops make and they really are experienced in these sort of matters.
No way this all went down free of emotion – emotion was probably Numero Uno in this equation. That’s my hunch anyway.
Your hunch is wrong. Everything else that I’ve seen in terms of physical evidence, etc points to a text book self defense scenario. If you want, I can pretty much write a script of what went down and why if you want to post it as a contra to Fitz’s piece.
Love to see it, john.
Email it to me at
Hearne@kcconfidential.com
On its way shortly, Hearne. Thank you.
Nobody is cool headed when the unexpected hit and the adrenaline is coursing thru their veins. Look at all the mistakes cops make and they really are experienced in these sort of matters.
Yet you second guess Jon Bieker.
That’s why, coop
Hard as it is, knowing what to do – better yet what not to do – is the best strategy.
As in just give it up, don’t fight
We get it your the sheep waiting for the slaughter.
You can’t argue with the likes of Mr. Fitzpatrick. Facts and stats are thrown out the window. Until you have had your side sliced open by a knife wielding thug attempting to take your beer money, or looked down the barrel of a stolen 38 as a hood rat tries to steal your vehicle off the Plaza, you can write snarky little articles on KCC, and comment back when reality slaps you in the face.
It’s all good. But know this. There ARE people out there that shoot thousands of rounds yearly. Just go out to Cableas some morning when a roll out a pallet of NATO 5.56. Last trip, the 4×4 foot pallet sold out in 2:45 seconds. Yes, under 3 minutes.
Mr. Fitzpatrick, Glazer and Christopher miss the point. TOTALLY. Many choose not just sit in the rocker and accept death. Many would rather go out like the gun store owner, with some fight. Not sitting in a cul-de-sac in south JOCO writing snarky comments about something the know NOTHING WHATSOEVER about.
But ya’ll have fun and keep reading about innocent people getting killed as you make excuses for the scum you defend and enable.
When 13% of the population commits over 50% of the crime in a nation of 300 plus million, a wise man would be wary. “Racist” is just another chic “word of the day” that shit heels like to use when they choose to avoid FACTS.
Ya’ll enjoy that double latte as you type your replies while wearing your wives panties.
Hey Polar Bear…
Glazer’s no pacifist, trust me on that one. He’s just smart enough to know – as the dude noted – that when somebody already has their gun pointed at you it’s too late to draw yours.
That’s got nothing to do with crossdressing, it’s just common sense.
And the cops I talked to make their living dealing with gunplay, robbery and the like – THEY are the ones disputing your course of action. I wonder if they secretly wear their wife’s panties? They’re certainly not mailing it in from rocking chairs in Johnson County.
They seem to think that despite the risk and that they thousands get shot every year according to you, that the odds massively favor handing over the money and keeping it in your pants.
Didn’t work out very well for Rieker, did it?
Yes, the bad guys were wrong, but two wrongs don’t make a right.
This should be a learning experience is my take
Statistically speaking private citizens tend to have a better record for accuracy than LE. That is in part I suspect because of the nature of liability laws that hold civilians accountable for collateral damage.
For instance, “According to a 2008 RAND Corporation study evaluating the New York Police Department’s firearm training, between 1998 and 2006, the average hit rate during gunfights was just 18 percent. When suspects did not return fire, police officers hit their targets 30 percent of the time.”
Makes you wonder, if the crooks hadn’t been met by gunfire, how many more guns would be on the street? If they’d killed everyone in the store, they’d have had plenty of time to go shopping for free firepower.
I think the store owner did the right thing…at least he did SOMETHING. The crooks know now, that the cops are saying “Just give them what they want.” That’s why they’re still out there robbing people. Once people start fighting back, maybe the crooks will think twice.
And maybe they won’t…but at least someone gave it the ol’ college try.
The crooks are going to be out there regardless of what happens in an incident here and an incident there. They’re going to be out regardless of life sentences and death penalties.
Crooks are going to be crooks.
Depending upon how you want to look at it, they’re either evil and/or desperate.
When you were a crook Craig you knew pretty much what was in store for you if you got caught.
Yet you went about your business nonetheless.
And you were neither evil nor desperate, just misguided, I would argue.
And for the record, the gun store had an extensive alarm system, so the robbers would NOT have been able to take their time had they killed everybody there.
They didn’t kill Mrs. Bieker, did they?
Just because you have a firearm, a cc permit, doesn’t mean you know what to do in a gun fight. When live rounds start going by your head, CC does not train you for that. My 72 year old in-laws have CC, and I am scared they are going to shoot someone. That said, It is everyone’s right to defend their family. Till we know the facts, it is all guessing.
Sorry it does not mean you know what to do.
This is a string of robberies and then a murder during a car jacking, where the victim was “in the wrong place at the wrong time”. Cause, you know, driving your car to the store can be very unlucky. The reason I post it, is because the mother of one of the perps, in hopes of presenting exculpatory evidence, explains why her son is innocent at the end.
http://www.msnewsnow.com/story/27842736/two-suspects-charged-for-murder-of-carolyn-temple-one-still-at-large
Wow…
I think the Florida pawn shop robbery serves to support the police claims that you should give the bad guys what they want and not fight back.
Guess who’s still alive for following that course of action?
The guys who worked at the pan shop.
You can barely find any of the details of the robbery because by complying with the bad guys nothing really happened there other than the loss of money and property.
Home invasion is en entirely different matter, obviously. As evidenced by what happened in Florida AFTER the robbery.