Sutherland: Dear Doctor, Lawyers, Developer Stub Toes on Controversial Prairie Village Nursing Home – Huzzah!

bugsDr. Alexander Smith

Senior Leverhulme Research Fellow

Department of Sociology

Coventry CV4 7AL

United Kingdom


RE:       The Voices of Moderation (a.k.a. “The Vital Center”)

Dear Alex:

On Tuesday night, September 3rd, there was a vote taken by the Prairie Village City Council that was a paradigm of the political changes that have taken place in Johnson County and Kansas.

Larry Winn, III, had previously voted as a member of the Shawnee Mission School Board to close a neighborhood school in the heart of moderate country.  (Some estimates put the cost of renovations to the school at $4,000,000; improvements which were finished right before it was closed and put up for sale.)

Winn III

Winn III

Winn, a local development lawyer, is a product of the former Bennett, Lytle law firm, which was the nerve center of the Mod-Squad in the good old/bad old days.  (Bennett, Lytle for years paid the operating costs of the office of the Johnson County Republican Party, which was only fair since it was an important profit center for the law firm.)

A former member of the firm told me that the Bennett, Lytle “mafia,” as it was not-so-fondly known, was living proof of evolution, always a hot topic here in the Sunflower State.  He explained that the late Robert Bennett, the firm’s founder, promoted policies as Prairie Village mayor, state senator, and Kansas governor that primarily benefited the public good, and only incidentally his personal financial interests.  Dick Bond, another former partner and moderate state senator, promoted policies that primarily benefitted his own personal financial interests, but incidentally also served (occasionally) the public good.  Larry Winn, III, on the other hand, only promoted policies to line his own pockets with no pretence of serving the greater good.  This may have been reverse evolution, but it was a form of evolution nonetheless.

Screen shot 2013-09-05 at 11.42.00 PMAfter six hours heated debate on Tuesday, with hundreds of Prairie Village residents packing the meeting hall, the project, a huge nursing home and retirement complex, was turned down (for now, at any rate!), in its rezoning application.  The hearing was handled by John Petersen, another former law partner of Winn’s, on behalf of the Tuterra Group, the developer.  (Petersen has been described as a “kinder, gentler” version of Winn.  He is also another leading “Moderate Republican,” as well as a former staffer for Bob Dole, the GOP 1996 presidential nominee.)

What we have here is the ultimate “politics makes strange bed-fellows” illustration. 

None of the leading “moderates” can be described as a liberal, all have served as hand-maidens of real estate developers and other corporate interests, and all have continued to back the national GOP ticket and cultivate close ties with Republican White Houses.  If you cannot back someone for Johnson County sheriff if he’s not pro-choice, how on earth can you support Republican presidential candidates who appoint Supreme Court justices who are committed to overturning Roe v. Wade?

UnknownModerate State Senator Barbara Allen said it was acceptable for Reagan, Bush, Dole, McCain, et al. to take socially conservative positions because, “They don’t really believe them and are just saying them to get elected.”  Local conservatives, she implied, actually believe in the positions they take and thus are dangerous extremists and must be stopped.

Again, Doctor Alex, are these really the kinds of political allies the Mainstream Coalition wants?  (Where for instance was Steve Rose, the self-styled conscience of Johnson County moderates, in this whole controversy over the school?)  To paraphrase Bob Dylan:  “Because something is happening here.  But you don’t know what it is. Do you, Mr. Rose?”  Highway 61 Revisited.

I eagerly await your response.


                    Dwight Sutherland, Jr.
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54 Responses to Sutherland: Dear Doctor, Lawyers, Developer Stub Toes on Controversial Prairie Village Nursing Home – Huzzah!

  1. Readers write says:

    Dwight D. Sutherland Jr., Esq.

    Dear Dwight:

    I am certain about six people find this interesting. Making matters worse, your letters are about as exciting as watching paint dry.

    I eagerly await your response.

    Kisses, readers everywhere.

    • Dwight Sutherland says:

      Several hundred people packed the Prairie Village City Council meeting on Tuesday to see what the outcome of this development proposal would be. The meeting went on for six hours, the matter was so controversial. The English academic that I’ve been writing to is an adjunct professor at KU and is here to study the future of moderate politics in the state. He spoke at a sold out meeting of the Mainstream Coalition on the subject last month,which is where I met him. I was particularly interested because the professor took issue with Thomas Frank’s”What’s The Matter With Kansas?”, a number one best-seller on the NYT’s non-fiction list. Clearly,our local political scene has interest beyond just the confines of Johnson County,Kansas. If you do not share that interest,don’t bother to read the posts.(I don’t follow the club scene here in KC but I don’t send snarky comments to other writers for the blog who write about that topic, saying it’s of no interest to me!) The beauty of blogs is that you can appeal to people with a variety of interests and perspectives. Unlike the Stalinist mentality that prevails at 17th and Grand,where all thought must be aligned with the revolutionary vanguard, I like to think we love debate and dissension here at kcconfidential.

  2. the dude says:

    I am interested as a current PV resident to know what really is happening behind the scenes on this raw deal for Prairie Village. Hopefully this greedhead is making bank off this deal that will eventually go down to many resident’s spite and ire.

    This is as simple as the matter gets; This development as designed is way too large for the site and Prairie Village is not hurting for another nursing home.

  3. harley says:

    uh …dwite….what was this article about…
    only need to drive thru the neighborhoods by the old meadowbrook and
    see it was not popular.
    but I guarantee you this…it will eventually get passed with enough cash.
    larry win got a retirement home passed at 71st and mission (over by
    pv shopping center) by handing out free turkeys.
    don’t think this is done….tuteras got big money and they’ll get
    it thru eventually.
    big money talks……

    • Orphan of the Road says:

      Another message from a secret bunker, deep beneath the Overland Park Sewage Plant and the lips of harley.

      • harley says:

        could care less.. the writers here are all about
        a day late on everything.
        from lefty to Sutherland….this development has been
        going ona long time.
        I knew bob Bennett…grew up down the street from him off
        of roe…Larry winn from my political work…both really
        good people…i’m adem…don’t agreewith their policies
        but they’re still very very very good at what they do.

        know the tuteras ….doc tutera…joe…their late brother/son
        so I know quite a bitabout this entire situation plus
        have watched this entire thing happening in pv.
        I know many many people and have worked with
        many of the parties involved in it.
        Hopefully it will be resolved.
        as far as other writers….they reallyoffer nothing new.
        If you needanyadvice or information…feel free to contact
        me at
        I would love to help both cheech and orphan of the rod
        get educated about politics in joco.
        tilthen…have fun..
        oh…and while you’re atit…get that 10K together children…
        we’ll see who the realphonies are.

        • Orphan of the Road says:

          When we going to make the bet official?

          I’ve got the cash anytime you want to meet.

          As stated before, on your turf (Northeast) and in the oldest, family owned bar (since 1952).

          The game ain’t hard and ain’t nobody barred.

          Step up or shut up.

    • Cheech says:

      Funny, you can’t get a writer to respond to a comment from you, they are all too smart to sully their fingers typing in response to your oral fecal regurgitation. Funny. Talk to the hand.

  4. mike t. says:

    i live in pv, not far from the site. grew up there ’til i was 16, in fact, and attended the school. could care less what they do with the site… but the neighborhood alliance that successfully stopped the development (so far), scares me more than any of potential negatives that development would have brought to one small section of PV.

    • Dwight Sutherland says:

      I’m very interested in your comment. I wasn’t aware of any defining characteristic of the neighborhood group that opposed development except for living in the vicinity of the proposed project, Do you think they are against ANY development? Or that they feel the needs of “The Community”, vaguely and sweepingly defined,takes precedence over the rights of property holders? Again,I’d be interested in the specific reason for your concern.

      • Brother Sunday says:

        Good god, there are more people rising up against this than were rising up to keep the school from closing in the first place! Somebody is printing signs – some of which are huge. They have budget, are well organized (facebook or email?), and are kicking ass. They could use you, Dr. Sutherland! “Come Fight For us, ese!”

      • mike t. says:

        i think what the dude said is part of it in that alot of the homeowners in the area were very unhappy with the school being shut down, and that, in part, is driving some of the anger. but not all of it.

        yes, i DO think they’re against any development that doesn’t fit their preconceived notions of what is good for the community… specifically their little community bordering the property. i seriously doubt that anyone living north of 75th street in PV could give a rip about the site. i live 4 blocks away and I could give a rip.

        i think, yes, that by their actions they do not view the property holder as having any rights… unless they are approved first by them.

      • Super Dave says:

        Dwight I think you will find they will be against almost anything or want only something so small it isn’t worth the investment on the parcel of ground.

    • the dude says:

      Mike, I don’t think the group is against any development although I think more than a few people were pissed about SMSD closing down an award winning school that wasted recent construction updates to the library. Plus the fact that the developer was not interested in scaling down the proposed structure to a smaller size, they only went down 30,000 sqft when the opposition said the initial design was way too big for the site. They just wanted to ram this oversized development down the taxpayer’s throats without any real concessions on their end.

      • mike t. says:

        i think they’ve proven that they can stop any development that they don’t think is in their best interest. without counting, i think there are maybe, what, a dozen homes max that border that property? on the north, northwest and partially west, you have apartments/duplexes. a few, two or three maybe, that border west/southwest and a few more border on the south. this doesn’t count the houses east of Mission, which is what, maybe six directly across? so, a small group, joined by a much larger group that do not border the property, can potentially derail any development not to their liking? that’s a bit scary to me.
        i agree that tutera was trying to push this through, but i also don’t see the problems with the (somewhat) scaled down plan. “massive”, to me, it was not. sprint campus = massive.

        • the dude says:

          It is called representative democracy and the people have spoken in this matter.
          But don’t worry, your oversized assisted living facility will get built, the greedheads will make sure of that whether the residents want it or not.

        • the dude says:

          I think a lot of residents thought the revised design that passed through planning was still too large considering the gross area of the entire site. If they scaled the building down to 2 floors and closer to 250,000 sqft then we can begin to talk. they don’t want to do it that way so the council said no.

        • Brother Sunday says:

          See Lenexa Grinders… Wait never heard of it? Yeah exactly. Neighbors rising up and if you have an ass (and a development) they will kick it.

    • Super Dave says:

      I agree with you Mike and today at another blog the PV residents are up in arms now that the so called private property has been marked as off limits to them to do as they seen fit to with. In short the Mission Valley residents can say no we don’t want your development but hey you rotten SOB how come we can’t play on your ground since it is just sitting there.

  5. Brother Sunday says:

    YEAH Dude! STFU, Readers Write! Anyway… Brother Sunday lives and drinks vodka/Rumple Minze @ 79th and Falmouth in PV. He sees all the signs saying NO to the development. He saw another grade school at Somerset and Belinder become an old people’s place. He thinks there are too damn many. No mo, MOFOs! But a good article! Brother Sunday didn’t know about all the political hooks. He didn’t know they put 4 trillion in upgrades to the school then sold it to be ultimately flattened. That is not so smart but that’s what happens with tax cuts I guess. Brother Sunday really hates tax cuts and people who vote for them. All the kids who went to Mission Valley (Brother Sunday has none) now have to cram into Indian Hills Jr. High. It’s so packed that kids are not allowed to wear backpacks in the halls. They have one-way stairwells (going up or going down) because it’s so overcrowded. So how can voters be happy with all these tax cuts?!?! Is your little tard-party… sorry… TEA Party republican kid getting a good education having to sit in a class with 49 other kids? How’s that working out for you? Brother Sunday does not understand why people in his area vote against their own economic – and sometimes social- interests. The Kansas electorate can be considered as “extremely uneducated republican” – regarding who they are putting in the state house and senate. Prairie Village might be well educated – generally speaking – but not too bright politically. Stephanie Clayton (not my district) is a good example of a recent election exception and I hope a trend that continues. Off topic and I digress. I know this development is a fringe deal with readers, but it’s fucking sexy. It’s stupid they bought the land and are now stuck with it. And its wicked RETARDED they upgraded, closed, and then sold the school and land in the first place. *Something* will be placed there for sure. They can build something like Corinth Downs (80th and Mission Rd) which we used to call “Wrinkle City” when I drove tow-trucks for PV Standard when I was in college. Put houses on it, sell them for 2 million, and then we can all STFU! P.S. Haters going to hate? Yeah I think so.

  6. Stomper says:

    Readers write;

    You are certainly entitled to your opinion on Dwight’s posting but you are a bit presumptuous to imply that you speak for a majority of the readers here at KCC. I’m not a resident of PV but do live in Johnson County and while I took issue with some of what he wrote, in total I found the piece to be very interesting and informative.

    On a related note, Dwight’s interests and cerebral capacities go a bit beyond mine so his reviews of movies and books hold little interest for me. As a result, I don’t waste anyone’s time by writing inane responses to his efforts on those topics.

  7. Orphan of the Road says:

    Having lived two-decades in Delaware County, PA I am always interested in one-party politics. We had an unelected body of politicos who actually ran things and selected all the candidates.

    And to hear from a person who is not a lap dog of the party is refreshing. DELCO County Council once had over 10,000 consecutive, unanimous votes.

    I appreciate your view, even if I don’t agree at times.

    Fresh air and sunshine cure most ills.

    One-party control with zilch chance of an opposition candidate winning is mushroom farming, feed them BS and keep them in the blind.

  8. Brother Sunday says:

    My comment is awaiting moderation. I have no idea why. Can anyone fix that?

    • Hearne says:

      Brother Sunday:

      We have a few “bad” words in the screening system. I generally OK those comments with rare exception, but it’s just something to try and keep the comments section a bit more civil.

      There are a couple other caveats, like adding more than two links.

      Anyway, a little patience.

      Or like Chuck and a few others who’s learned, you can shortcut things by typing things like, “What the F**k”

  9. Gerald Bostock says:

    Watching from a safe distance, I believe the emotional impetus for this fight is the lingering anger over closing Mission Valley Middle. I think more people were up in arms about that and more people were directly affected by that. The school board’s stance was that it was closing MV reluctantly and unavoidably because of slashed spending in Topeka, so that left the community’s anger toward the district and powers-that-be unresolved. When SM decided to sell to private developers instead of Kansas City Christian School (though it’s not clear how close that was to happening), the community saw this as another example of having their wishes (the status quo of the site as a school) spurned. So I believe that whatever proposal Tutera came up with for that tract, the neighbors would have risen up to oppose it. Even though those same people who can’t bear the thought of a senior citizen’s complex probably can be found frequently a block away spending money at BRGR, Urban Table, Salty Iguana or other evil profiteers preying on their neighborhood.

    • the dude says:

      You can blame the stupid school funding court case for SMSD having to close schools that they could have raised bond money for if they were allowed to.

  10. Michael P. says:

    The Mayor of Prairie Village owns a company that did a wastewater survey about 5 years ago for maybe 50K. Now he wants to do the same survey again. But the residential area to be surveyed has not changed at all. Just more money in his pocket. No bid contracts are awarded to prairie village councilmen’s firms. Some people use their position with P.V. to get no bid contracts awarded to their own businesses. Its pitiful.

  11. harley says:

    thats joco folks….and Kansas.
    the republicans have a stranglehold over the state..and local politics.
    don’t worry. this will be built.
    the money will flow…the homeowners who are against it will get
    some compensation and the tutera group will build their
    don’t you people understand what’s going on. I read the prairie village
    post and the comments. I don’t understand how the tutera family…a
    great family in this town could let this get so out of hand.
    doc tutera delivered probably 1/3 of the baby boomers inthis town…
    they have agreat track record with their homes like the atriums.
    joe has done a great job.
    but why would this get so out ofcontrol?
    the homeowners in the area will eventually falter…someone will
    get some kind of money and move on…and the development will
    be built.
    its all about the money Dwight and kcc readers. And the money
    (hundreds of millions of dollars) will win out.
    how can a handful of homeowners stay against this project once
    the monied interests come out to play.
    The politicians are just waitingfor a bunch of cash to come their
    way and they’ll fall in line.
    that’s how the world works today.
    that’s how things are done today.
    before its over…all the homeowners will fall in line…
    and besides…whats wrong with another retirementdevelopement?
    they’re opening up everywhere….why not at84th and mission…
    it will bebuilt…Harley guarantees it.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  12. John Altevogt says:

    Hmmm… $4 mil in improvements completed by which construction firms for a building that was then sold for how much, wasn’t it about $4 mil?, to a group represented by one of Winn the Turd’s former law partners. And what were the details of that transaction? A shame KC doesn’t have an honest newspaper instead of a rag that actually endorses the scum.

    Just like in KCMO, everything in Johnson County was considered to be a profit center for the still active JOCO Mod Squad. JCCC is another hot bed of this kind of activity for these weasels with its no-bid legal contracts and central building named after Groper Carlsen it’s disgraced former commander. These people have no shame, and they will embrace any nonsense that will keep the editorial writers at The Star and the bigots of the Mainstream Coalition doing their bidding.

    The thesis of Tom Franks book was that the people of Kansas voted against their best interests by supporting conservatives. Better he should have taken a closer look at the suckers on the left in PV, Mission Hills and Leawood (and the editorial chambers of The Star) who continually put the sleaziest collection of white trash in office all in the name of political “moderation”.

  13. PV Girl says:

    Well of course Dwight and John criticize the moderates in PV. It’s the game they’ve been playing for years, because they disagree with their political stances. Unsurprisingly, Dwight and John ignore the work done by the moderate republicans, who helped build one of the best suburban areas and school districts in the country. That doesn’t matter to Dwight, who attended private schools, and both men are both too busy still whining about being right politically (pun intended) to look at the big picture and see the excellent results attained by their political enemies.

    It is this arrogance that is now ruining the state of Kansas and will also ruin Johnson County. Sadly, they have turned decades of political disagreement into an all out war that impacts all of us. I’m a Democrat so for years I’ve enjoyed watching these battles from the sidelines. But the days of sitting back and being a spectator are over. People are waking up, as the far right whackos take over and drag Kansas back into the 19th century. They’ve let nothing stop them. They cheat and steal to win elections. But as many moderate republicans have stated over the years, the good guys always win in the end and the wingnuts on the right are certainly not the good guys. Unfortunately our schools and our communities may be destroyed by the time we run these nujobs out of office and Dwight and John are merely bad memories.

    • Dwight Sutherland says:

      Have you been following my posts,PV Girl? I have taken on Brownback and his ilk on more than one occasion. My problem is less with the moderate Republicans’ positions on the issues,which are closer to my own than you might think,but on their self dealing and generally ethically challenged behavior. I have no problem with liberal Democrats,if only because no-one is a Kansas Democrat out of a desire for money or power,because for most of our state’s history there was precious little of the latter for them. As far as I’m concerned, integrity trumps ideology,which is why I’ve supported local Dems like Max Gordon and Neil Sader in the past. The Mod-Squad didn’t create the excellent schools in JoCo,we all did,starting one hundred and fifty years ago when this state was founded on the notion that everyone,rich and poor,black and white,should have a chance in life. It was the Homestead Act,the creation of the land grant universities like KU and K-State,settlers from all over the world coming here,as well as freedmen from the South. Don’t claim credit for Kansas for the current crop of grifters and bag-men because they are allies of the moment.(Oh,and by the way I spent more time in pun public schools and colleges than in private ones,as have my parents,grand-parents,children,and grandchildren.My grandmothers were teachers,as was my daughter,and my wife and mother were volunteers in the local public schools so please spare me the ad hominem attacks on me not valuing public education.)

      • PV Girl says:

        And I supported Dole and Kassebaum, which proves not much. It’s also not about the amount of time you spent in public schools, it’s about your attitude towards them.

        • Dwight Sutherland says:

          Willingness to cross party lines or to vote for someone with a different political outlook shows that one is not an ideologue or hopeless partisan,which is what you accused me of being because I criticized The Mod-Squad for their self-dealing. You also said I was not concerned about public schools because I attended private schools. The bulk of my time in school was spent at public institutions so that argument also goes out the window. Why will no one even address the question I’ve raised over and over,i.e.whether these transactions which lined the pockets of the so-called” politically moderate” Johnson County Republicans who were involved were ethical and above-board? Anything which involves a conflict-of-interest can be legitimately questioned but all we hear in response is a lot of bombast about “theocracy”,”The Koch Brothers”,and “a woman’s health care decisions”. Just answer the blanking question-Should this school have been sold to a corporate client of a school board member’s long-time law partner? Maybe there is some reasonable explanation but no one will even admit it’s an issue.

    • harley says:

      but beware…chuckles the sad lonely clown is on a rage
      against everyone…
      to these right wingers its all about blaming everyone but themselves
      and their cohorts for the problems they got in life.
      its tough being a republican these days….like being a whig long ago.
      on the way out…into total disarray and become extinct in the
      real world….
      gladto have you on board as a realist and bright thinking commentator.
      we need more writers like you.
      pv girl in 2016!!!!!

      • Orphan of the Road says:

        Another message from a secret bunker, deep beneath the Overland Park Sewage Treatment Plant.

        harley was born poor and ignorant and has been losing ground ever since.

  14. John Altevogt says:

    And thank you for demonstrating the delusional perspective that has made the Democrat/Communist Party a tiny minority in the Kansas legislature. In addition, corrupt Democrat/Communist machines have trashed virtually every major urban area in the country while your national officials have destroyed a once great economy and turned our country into an international laughingstock.

    Even the crooks and trash in our party offer better leadership than the misguided nonsense espoused by the Democrat/Communist Party

    • harley says:

      johnny boy…you people left us in the worst recession since the great
      depression…left us in 2 wars…unemployment problems and
      a huge deficit that was built on 2 wars and unfunded social programs
      …look now johnny boy…
      unemployment is dropping….the tteasuries are overflowing with
      cash (Missouri and other blue states)….the economy is booming…
      manufacturing is reaching all time highs..and
      you and your repub friends have left Kansas with a huge tax
      mess whilev even the rest of the red states are doing pretty
      well economically.
      your analogy to communism is so old that I wonder if
      you’ll fit in perfectly with the kcc down and out crew
      that’s sitting collecting their social security and
      medicare from the “communists in Washington”.

      wtf johnny…you think you’ll be happy if the “commies”
      cut off your social security and medicare when it comes
      all you right wing nuts are the same…give me mine
      and no one else.
      good luck…now go take your ensure.

    • John Altevogt says:

      Sorry, the above was a response to PV Girl.

      • Hinge says:

        No matter who you reply to your obsession with communism makes you sound positively demented.

        1959 called.

        • John Altevogt says:

          Not at all. I spent much of my adult life, including a significant portion of the late 60’s and early 70’s ensconced in various sociology departments. I’m well aware of who exactly is influencing the current crop of statists, from the Cloward-Piven model of social change that drives designed-to-fail programs like Deathcare to the works of Antonio Gramsci that advise today’s cultural Marxists. If you look hard enough you’ll find a discussion I was involved in after the fall of Eastern European Communism wherein the community of academic Marxists/Communists became “progressives”. One of the other participants if memory serves was the son of Ethel and Julius Rosenberg. The most you could possibly know (if you weren’t so ignorant) is what you could read. I was there and a part of the very formation of the movements you see now, just as there is no better institutional memory of the JOCO Republican Party (other than some of the crooks themselves, and they’re not talking) is Dwight Sutherland.

          • Orphan of the Road says:

            The problem with Communism is Communists. Much the same as the problem with Christianity is Christians.

          • harley says:

            oh a sociologist.
            you and chuckles need to room together.
            birds of a feather sleep together.
            yeah…in the real world sociologists are
            the ones who sit around and dream up
            stuff about people.
            sociology…that was the major that people
            who couldn’t make it in the real world
            took…or were “supposed thinkers”.
            we’ve seen all the sociologoists we need
            lately…what we need are real business
            people who know the real world and hot
            to improve it…not a bunch of college
            sociology majors who get thru life
            repeating b.s. and causing problems.
            get a real job sir.
            there’s plenty of opening for people who
            didn’t take sociology in college.
            oh…and when you put down your anti
            commie book go reada real world book about
            how the real world operates.
            maybe pick up one by Donald trump or take
            a class in business over at jccc.
            Lots more real world stuff there then in
            those out of circulation books you mention.
            achtum shnell dumkuff!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • harley says:

        johny on the spot boy….getting a little old…can’t
        remember what you wrote.
        okay…as long as your ss check is on time and you
        get the scooter for free you’re all happy to knock
        the dems.
        maybe nexgt time you write you’ll be at one
        of tutera’s memory facilities.
        take care johny on the spot.

    • Brother Sunday says:

      John, can you please pass me another abortion bill? Thanks

      • John Altevogt says:

        I’d love to, but presently I’m more focused on protecting and expanding our 2nd Amendment rights. I’m proposing that anyone caught in the act of committing a crime (or espousing liberalism) can be shot on the spot.

        Hey look Dwight, you’ve hit the mainstream of blogging when all these leftist morons show up to comment on your posts.

        • Stomper says:

          John; When you make over the top comments like “leftist morons” , “Democratic/Communist Party”, and say that anyone esposing liberalism should be shot, you lose all credibility. You’re a smart guy and should be able to make your points or defend your position without having to make insulting and ignorant statements just because someone else sees the role of government as being a bit more active than you do. It’s not all black and white out there; lot’s of gray and middle ground to share. That’s part of the problem in Washington now; nobody wants to even try to reach across the aisle and compromise; both sides. I’m one of those leftist morons that you think ought to be shot. I’m an entrepreneurial guy myself that thinks the private sector should have the first shot. But the government has a role to play when the private sector can’t, or won’t solve problems. Does that make me a communist? Take a deep breath here John. We have lot’s of good, rational, and concerned citizens sitting to your left that don’t deserve to be shot or called morons just because they see the role of government differently than you. Do you think James Madison was a moron? I’m guessing you think FDR was.

          Just a brief comment on the 2nd amendment that I’m guessing might light your fuse. I’m a guns rights guy that doesn’t have a problem with citizens owning guns. However I can’t understand the overwhelming fear that the NRA, and probably you have with allowing any kind of background check when weapons are purchased at gun shows. Nobody is trying to take your guns away.

          Just keep it civil John. I respect your opinion, just not your insults.

          • John Altevogt says:

            And you don’t have to. I tend to respond in kind to those I’m chatting with. You and I (and Dwight) could probably have a wonderful and enlightening discussion. But, you don’t waste serious discussions on literature with children who aren’t even capable of reading yet.

            Harley, brother Sunday and Hinge are simply trolls, meaningless as human beings, who neither deserve, nor command any respect with their childish comments and they’ll be treated accordingly.

    • PV Girl says:

      So you admit your party is made up of crooks and trash. Interesting.

      You’re also wrong about the economy but facts have escaped rethuglicans for quite awhile now.

  15. Brother Sunday says:

    OH, I have a wonderful time here. I smile when I write. I don’t try to get respect or command respect or do anything regarding respect. I always thought that was very very obvious. You take this WAY seriously… and that is very very obvious. And the way you treat me is just fine, pally. -BroSun

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