OTC: Scott Todd’s Frankenstein Has Ex-Chiefs’ Mad As Hell
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looper
So what did everyone think a 2-14 team at the beginning of a long rebuilding process was going to look like?
craig glazer
Greg and fans on a sad note, I don’t see the Chiefs or Royals ever winning or ever being in a title game…not playoffs but world series or superbowl…here is why…there is no cap now on NFL…so wealthy owners and owners who are big on winning,i.e. Jerry Jones, will be the ones spending and going to championships…
Glass never really wanted to own the Royals, more than ten years back he became a caretaker…likely he was told please do this for a few years and we will find a local owner to take your place…we didn’t…he is not going to spend big money and hasn’t…the team is terrible, has been and will be for years and years….look at the teams who win,Yankees,Boston,L.A….you get the picture….not gonna be KC and David Glass ever..unless we find about four super stars in the draft, even if we did and we likely won’t, they would cost too much to keep and be gone in five years or so, ala Beltron,Dye,Damon…get the snapshot..
Clark Hunt and Glass for that matter, are not multi-billionaires, in the sense of extra millions to throw around…Clark likes the Chiefs but they are not his big love, he is not gonna risk mega money to win, when being average works in KC for now…and his asset is still worth a billion to use for business calatoral…Clark is a young man and unlike 70 year old Jerry Jones has alot of years left..he needs his money…when his dad did all this, he loved football and his money equalled the others at that time, Clarks does not…he isn’t poor, he’s just not mega, mega compared to the others..same with Glass who has even less interest in winning….SO I HATE TO break the news….we will all complain, listen to 610 and 810 but fans its over…barring great luck,new owners….it ended in l970 for the Chiefs and l985 for the Royals both almost half a lifetime ago…and now its gone….doesn’t much matter if you like the coach or gm or the one or two big name players we can afford…to prove my point we bought Matt Cassel for big bucks and it ended there, no other expensive player was sought or bought to help….and so on….point proven…you can’t do it with just the draft anymore…
Gavin
I’m not sure how these could be the clouds hiding the silver lining, Greg. It’s one think to stink out loud but entirely another to regress like this collection of castoffs, has-beens and never-wasses seems to do every week. If they were improving fundamentally, if they showed progress, if they even appeared to be in some of these games, maybe there would be some reason to hope that these chuckleheads know what they’re doing but as it stands right now, I think it’s clear that Haley has no idea what he is doing and isn’t going to learn. There may still be some hope for Pioli, but I think Clark needs to eat Haley’s contract and go out and hire a real coach.
John
Looper, what fans were expecting was improvement. Nothing less. Last year was a bad year. But King/Herm 2008 is looking like a playoff Super Bowl run compaired to this crap.
And to all of the Scott/Todd fan boys, yes King Carl and Herm Edwards made this mess. So, why is Scott/Todd making it worst????
Hey Scott Pioli, come out of your panic room. The fans and the media have a few questions we would like you to answer…..
observer
How does any group of men become a “team” when one bad game means your ass is out of town? The players not only don’t know where they are on the field, they don’t know WHO they are on the field. To pull some guy from another team, throw him into practice for a week, and expect them to perform like they are part of a well oiled machine is not the way to build a team. If Haley held himself to the same standard that he holds his players to, he’d have been gone after week 3.
smartman
Surprise, surprise, surprise Sargeant Carter. When you have Gomer Pyle’s throughout your organization you aren’t going to be very good. Lights out!
WTF
Look into the the future, it says that Hlark Cunt’s plan is to gut this team, destroy the fan base, kill attendance … and then be able justify moving the team to his beloved texas….oh well fk him… he is an asshole, and that why he hired assholes to ruin this team, and it is ruined…not rebuilding (again) it is ruined….fk it all.
Hlark Cunt with be diagnosed with a terrible illness which shows him he is not all knowing, all powerful, he is a mere human with an evil plan, and he will get what he deserves. fk him.
Dexter Morgan
looper
Fine, I’ll stand up for Scott Todd. They inherited the second worst franchise in the NFL, playing a schedule that would give playoff teams trouble. They’ve been on the job for a grand total of 8 games. Pioli helped build the best franchise in football (don’t give me any bull about Belichick being in charge, because it was SP running the drafts and SP who had final say on personnel decisions)in New England, so for people to question his credentials is ludicrous. He was the NFL Exec of the Year twice. Clearly the man knows what he’s doing. The fact that he can’t snap his fingers and fix the Chiefs is a testament to how thoroughly Carl broke this team.
Haley, yeah, I’m not 100% on him, but he deserves more than an 8 game tryout. Seems to me that if people are going to complain about players being yanked in and out, you can’t advocate for the coach to get canned after half a season. And his play calling is bad at times, but with the collection of players on this roster, you won’t find anyone who can do any better. There isn’t enough talent to run most of the plays in the playbook with any kind of success.
My question is, why isn’t anyone complaining about the players? This is such a crapbag of football talent, where’s their portion of the blame? If players are mentally MIA or unmotivated, that’s on them, not the coaches. Players should be able to figure out where the sticks are when they reach this level of football. Players making millions a year have the ability to motivate themselves. Simple as that. You think Philip Rivers or Darren Sproles look to Turkeyneck to motivate them? Nope. But the fact that this is a serious problem on the Chiefs is pathetic. But it’s on the players to fix that. I’d love to see Maas or Baldy or one of our plethora of ex-player commentators take some of the players to task for not finishing plays or running routes correctly.
wtf
yeah, you stand up for the idiots, feel free., but dont blame the talent, that is stupid.
The talent level on all NFL teams is pretty equal. Do you understand the talent pool concept?? There are many many many players who are not playing in the NFL right now and they are almost good enough.
If a player makes an NFL team he has has talent, but there has to be leadership, and this team has NO LEADERSHIP!! NOTHING…NOT AN OWNER…NOT A COACH …. NOT A GM…IT IS A JOKE!!
observer
“Haley, yeah, I
Paul
looper is EXACTLY RIGHT. I’ll take it a step further- the vast majority of players on this football team are FUCKING SOFT!!!! These pussies are so used to living “the life” and not EARNING it that now that they’re held accountable for their performance on the field they don’t know how to handle it! Do you see or hear players in Arizona or New England bitch and moan about the way they’re coached??? FUCK NO!! They DO THEIR JOBS, keep their fucking mouths shut, and win football games!!! Gee, what a novel motherfucking concept!!!
Mike Vrable and Matt Cassel probably HATE going to work everyday knowing that they have to play with a bunch of whining fucking crybaby LOSERS….which hopefully will be shown the door the moment this season ends. The 49ers thought Mike Singletary was a fucking PRICK of a head coach when he took that merry band of losers over last year. He took out a LOT of the trash in the offseason and had guys like Vernon Davis and Pat Willis buy in to what he wants that team to be, and they are MUCH better (and tougher) this year.
In the meantime, anybody that thought for a second this team was going to do ANYTHING good this season was kidding themselves. Yeah, it sucks. But I (and most other SMART Chiefs fans) will expect a much tougher and smarter team in 2010 once a lot of this current roster (i.e. Carl Peterson/Herm Edwards REJECTS) is sent packing next spring.
looper
@Observer – between the injuries and the total lack of talent on the roster, which 11 guys is Haley supposed to play on O or D? This feeds back into my argument: if you are going to complain about him “not doing anything”, then you can’t complain about him not having a set lineup. there just aren’t many core guys on this roster and if Haley had run the same team out there for 8 games and gone 1-7, people would flip out about that. the guy’s screwed no matter what lineup he uses.
smartman
Looper. You give Scott Pioli WAY to much credit for the Patriots success. The Hoodie was in complete and total control. That might not have been the perception at the time but it was the reality. Talk to any chowderhead football fan and they will tell you that Pioli was not an important piece of the puzzle.
MoCrash
Oh woe is us. The Chiefs and Royals stink and it ain’t ever gonna get better *sniff sniff* all is lost. Doom. Gloom.
So much for Midwestern common sense. Sheesh, what a bunch of friggin’ whiners; KC “fans” make New Yorkers look placid.
Both franchises have a lot of work to do to make up for a long-term talent drain. On 610’s Chris and the Cowboy Show (minus the Cowboy) Wednesday, they were handing out grades to Haley, and it was almost universally F’s (except for some callers). Considering that the Chiefs probably don’t have 3 offensive players who at least average by NFL standards (Cassel, Bowe and Waters) and little more on defense — with only Hali as a standout, impact-type player — that they have been competitive in all but a couple of games is slightly impressive. Certainly, it’s easy to point to reasons why the Chiefs didn’t win the winnable games, including mistakes by Haley, but when you begin each game with a significant talent deficit even being able to stay on the same field against some of those opponents is an achievement — albeit a low-end one.
I agree with those who say the Chiefs’ have no identity, but what team has halfway through the first season of a rebuilding process? There is no way to reliably predict what the Chiefs will look like a year from now, much less further into the future. For the time being, all Pioli can do is bring a lot of guys in and see who will stick, which means Haley has to work with scrap-heap parts until they can be developed into functional products or replaced by superior grades.
I would think that some of these ex-Chiefs get it, but it seems many of them are too busy moaning in order to get more radio time or are trying to elevate their own status by detracting the present team. News to Pearson, Maas, Baldinger, Collins and Co.: How many Super Bowl rings have you guys collected while wearing the red? Other than Dawson, who is critical of the present by not damning the future, there ain’t that much for post-1970 Chiefs to brag about.
John
Do you see or hear players in Arizona or New England bitch and moan about the way they
MandDshagger
MoCrash, I would agree with you if this were a rebuilding process. I don’t think you can call this season a rebuilding as much as lets put guys on the field this week so we can play. Even the most conservative football pundits question what is going on in KC. Half the roster will be gone next year, so maybe 2010 starts the REAL rebuilding. It will take at least two years to assemble an O-Line that can function as a cohesive unit on a consistent basis. That’s assuming that Clark will spend the way that he needs to. The gloves are off in the NFL. The men and the boys are going to get separated very quickly. If Clark Hunt doesn’t make winning a Superbowl in the next 5 years his number one goal in life he should sell the team or turn over the operation to a Bill Cowher or Jimmy Johnson, give them a stake in the team and turn them loose.
ShawnF
NFL = Not For Long
NFL is a copy-cat league with short attention spans. Miami’s 2008-2009 season shows that you can turn it around, and that’s what people look to when someone comes into a hot mess of a team.
What bothers me is that the national spotlight isn’t on this team because Pioli’s a Belichik discipline/guy, and both Haley and Pioli have Parcell’s ties, so therefore “they must know what they are doing”. Check how Charlie Weiss, Eric Mangini, and Romeo Crenell are doing overall. Book is still out McDaniels (6-2 Denver could easily be 4-4 if not for a tipped ball and Dallas inability to tackle with 2:00 to go).
Here’s the really scary thought: if we’re this bad, and the National Media thinks that Cleveland, Oakland, and St. Louis are bigger messes, what’s it like in those cities?
One of these screwed up teams, including us and Jax, is prime target for Los Angeles. (Yes, I know, $400M in improvements, but there’s always a way around contracts, ask Al Davis)
rick
Looper and Paul. Thank you for some intelligent feedback instead of all this off the cuff the sky is falling reaction. So much wrong written on this its hard to know where to start. Let’s start with Craig.
I will again say this Chiefs is better team then last years.
Smartman-You know the hoodie was in complete and total control how? How do you know this? Is it possible that maybe you aren’t giving Scott enough credit. The chowderhead fan knows about as much as the Chiefs fan. which is nothing. They aren’t in the war room. We fans only know what people tell us.
Craig-Sadly you are right about the Royals and about Glass and spending. Wrong about the Chiefs and money. If only money will win in the NFL how do you explain the very cheap Bill Bidwell and Cardinals. And Craig just how are them Cowboys been doing?
John-You are wrong about Boldwin and Warner about there feelings about Todd. Kurt recommended him for the job and him and Todd are very good friends and went to church together. It would be helpful if you knew what you were talking about prior to posting.
Where were all these former players last year when the Chiefs sucked. Did they miss that. Well okay Billy Bob did due to his drug haze but what are the excuses of the others.
looper
@smartman, I was living in Massachusetts from 1998 through 2007 and watched the rise of the Patriots firsthand, so I feel pretty confident in my assessment. Just because Pioli wasn’t in front of a camera every day doesn’t mean he wasn’t doing anything. He was a huge part of that team’s success. This is different than hiring ex-Pats coordinators, the Chiefs actually went and got the guy who assembled the team.
To put it another way, the Patriots are not shy about dumping dead wood. You think Bob Kraft was going to let a do-nothing GM stay on the payroll? Doubtful.
smartman
Rick, Looper: I do have good inside info on the Pats. A good friend of mine is a surgeon in Boston and lives next to a Pats exec. The Hoodie made and continues to make all the important personnel decisions. To his credit, and since he’s not a media whore, he stayed in the background. No tears were shed when Pioli and Cassel came here. Unlike the Chiefs the Pats system demands and gets discipline and respect from the players. Even Randy Moss has his act together. The Hoodie is responsible for creating that atmosphere. Guys will take a bullet for him. NOBODY in the Chiefs organization, or in this town are gonna take a bullet for Scott/Todd. We got lemons and these guys can’t make lemonade. Clark fucked up. Admit it. Correct it. Move on!
John
We got lemons and these guys can
JimmyD
Paul, Looper, Rick, thanks for fighting the good fight. What are these people expecting? The cupboard was bare when Pioli got here. BARE. Is it that hard to understand. smartman, keep going to your surgeon friend’s neighbor’s brother’s cousin-in-law for PROOF that Pioli made no important personnel decisions. This important Pats exec also said the Hoodie was responsible for creating the internet and crocs
craig glazer
Rick thanks for the back up on Royals…but Chiefs too, Clark is not gonna spend this kinda dough, if he was I think he would have bought some players this year to help Matt…you mean the Cowboys have not made it deep into playoffs, they will this year and he,Jones, raised the money for that stadium..he put alot in himself…he’s trying to spend it to win..Bidwell had the one good year…thats it…he has some talent from back when it was a bit cheaper…one of you guys made a great commment…”It takes talent to get into the NFL” thats true…so leadership here is poor….true…
Uncle Dick
Los Angeles Chiefs. Sounds like a freakin’gang. Should be easy enough to get 22 guys off the street with more experience than our current crop of Crips.
Tailgating at the Coliseum will look like a Swap and Shop, with home-made burritos and lift kits for Chevys. Barbeque won’t be as popular. It’s very difficult to keep the beans from falling through the grill.
Parking will be $22 a car, same as Arrowhead, so it will figure out to about $1 a person riding in a ’67 candy apple red Impala.
rick
So Craig do i hear you want to make a bet on Dallas? Craig seriously, you of all people can answer this question because you have a unique background. Can money buy happiness? Does Donald Trump seem like a happy guy? By the same token the same applies to sports. It takes more then money. The Yankees won their fist world series in ten years this year. Yet they’ve had the highest payroll each of those years. So 10% that doesn’t seem to be a good return on the investment. I’ll say this. I don’t think the Chiefs will get to the Super bowl before Dallas. But i bet they win one before them. It takes more then money.
Smartman I stand corrected.
John Buckshot
Gavin, you said “think” when I think you meant “thang.” Source card?
MoCrash
MandDshagger, I agree the Chiefs don’t seem to have a direction yet, but that’s not possible until they start identifying or acquiring their personnel core. There’s going to be huge turnover until the Chiefs find (or stumble upon, if you prefer) talent. The more guys they bring in and look at, the better chance they have of getting something of value before the slower draft process or more expensive (off-season) free agent market can provide. Besides, and this is what strikes me as strange about Kansas City fans, how is it in the franchise’s best long-term interest to win games this year; actually, it may be better to be competitive and lose in order to stay high in the draft. Adversity has its uses; it separates the real winners — guys who can be champion-quality competitors — from guys with loser mentalities. The Chiefs need to play to win each week, but not winning can have the providence of exposing the LJ’s in one’s midst — which won’t do for a franchise built to last.
The Chiefs’ biggest problem is PR. Whatever his other virtues, Scott Pioli is not PR savvy. He’s asking for a level of trust from fans fed mediocrity in two sports for too long that simply doesn’t exist to the same extent it would be Lamar Hunt hiring Carl Peterson hiring Marty Schottenheimer. And this ain’t the ’80s, when there was neither internet nor a comparable number hours devoted to local sports programming on both radio and TV as exist today. Clark Hunt (unproven owener) hiring Scott Pioli (GM with credentials, but no independent franchise-building record) hiring Todd Haley (who? some young OC, like Aaron Eckhart’s “Crozier” for the Sharks in Oliver Stone’s “Any Given Sunday”). Pioli, the central figure in this cast, is asking for blind faith from people whose faith is routinely unrewarded and is waning — and doing so without an adequate explanation of why he should be believed.
But the Chiefs aren’t going from the outhouse to the penthouse overnight, so what’s the point of wallowing in despair? Nobody has to be happy with losing, and there’s unquestionably legitimate complaint and frustration, all is not lost forever. Just because we can’t see to the other side of the mountain doesn’t mean we can’t get there, it’s merely a matter of how long after we get the right gear it takes to find the right route. And the Chiefs are just beginning to re-tool, and don’t even have an accurate map.
observer
MCrash – I didn’t expect a superbowl. I didn’t even expect a winning season. I just expected to see some improvement. I haven’t.
looper
Well, it looks like we’re going to have to agree to disagree. I feel like I heard enough WEEI and read enough of the Boston papers that if Pioli was just picking up a check, someone would have made a huge deal about it. At the very least it seems strange that a franchise known for its ruthless personnel decisions would let its GM sit around and do nothing. That’s not how they operate.
So I’ll say that the Chiefs and their fans at least need to give Scott Todd the rest of this season and the entire 2010 season to see if they can do anything with the expansion-level talent they inherited. It took years for Carl to wreck the team, and it’ll take years to fix it. Fasten your seatbelts.
smartman
Let’s take the default route of common sense. After watching years of THE HOODIE and the glimpse we’ve gotten of Scott Pioli does anyone really think that THE HOODIE would trust Pioli to make critical decisions for him? It’s like the relationship that Mike Holmgren and Tod Leiweke had in Seattle and Tod was/is the damn president. Tod greeted people when they walked in the stadium and Mike ran the team.
MoCrash
Observer: You expected too much. The Chiefs aren’t going to begin to improve until they have more pieces in place, and currently they are still searching for those pieces. Take heart, though: the Cowboys won one game during Jimmy Johnson’s first year, worse than Tom Landry’s last, but were soon two-time Super Bowl champions. That’s not saying the Chiefs will accomplish that feat, but — as the saying goes — it’s often darkest just before dawn.
looper
Smartman: Well, you said it right there, we’ve only gotten a glimpse of Pioli. As broken as I think this roster is, even a glimpse of The Hoodie himself wouldn’t do anything for this team. This situation calls for some patience and I don’t see anything wrong with giving these guys two seasons to get their own players in and their own system instituted. Canning them after 1/2 season sends the message that the Chiefs don’t have the stomach for a multiyear rebuilding process and want to win with the players that got Herm and Carl booted. Good luck getting anyone else to take the job under those conditions.