OTC: Is The Big 12 North Bottom Heavy?

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33 Responses to OTC: Is The Big 12 North Bottom Heavy?

  1. Anonymous says:

    Man, there is some anti-KSU stuff in this post today. I’m no K-State fan, but it seems a little much.

    On the Barfknecht article

  2. Anonymous says:

    But the point is, with all that cash, you can buy your way out of mistakes. If Texas hires Ron Prince and has a moronic AD give him $3.5 million on the way out the door? They just write him a check and call it a stupid tax. If it happens at K-State or Mizzou or Colorado, then that affects their budgets in other important facets like recruiting or facilities improvements or whatever.

    It’s just like the Royals and Yankees. The Yankees can afford to take chances on free agent signings year after year. Some hit like Teixiera, Sabathia, A-Rod. Others don’t like Pavano or Irabu.

    Whereas the Royals have much consternation not only over Guillen’s contract, but also lesser-paid guys like Farnsworth.

    There’s just not as much margin for error for the Royals … or five of the six teams in the North (excluding Nebraska … but even they can’t compete budgetwise with Texas and OU).

  3. Anonymous says:

    Greg is trying to generate heat among the Purple Nation, but you have to be making outragious claims within a fanbase in order to even come close to successful in such efforts. The truth is, KState fell so far under Prince, their fan base is fully accepting that we are walking our way back up. Ron Prince loses the Iowa State game were he still head coach. As a matter of fact, KState would be 1-4 under Prince right now instead of 3-2.

  4. Anonymous says:

    The Big 12 can realign all they want. Texas and Oklahoma will still be perennial powerhouses with ocassional threats from the peanut gallery.

  5. Anonymous says:

    I recall KK going crazy in his praise for Prince after that 1st season. They were going to a bowl game (7-5 I think). KK spent his entire monolog talking about how rare it is for a first year coach to do that. Now KSU is in horrible shape after 2 losing seasons under that same coach? No mention of Snyders last two years of losing football?

  6. Anonymous says:

    The B12N was a much beter place for every North team when KSU was a top 20 team. Snyder’s heated rivarly games with NU made those two programs relevant nationally. I fear we are now stuck with a few extended family spats to spice up our football season.

    Rehiring Snyder is going to end up hurting his legacy and putting K-State five years behind KU. They needed to go young and exciting and instead they went old and unable to recruit. The Prince experience scared them into hiring for comfort rather than future success.

    The odds are stacked against all of us in the North. None of us can afford to make these kind of mistakes when hiring a head coach. Let’s hope I’m wrong.

  7. Anonymous says:

    GH, the odds were stacked against the North programs when this all started in 1995. Texas still outspent everybody back then. Nothing has changed in that regard except that the talent pool got diffused around the North. Instead of NU, CU, and KSU kicking the shit out of UK and MU every year, they raised their game a little bit. Not enough, as their performance in the Championship games has shown since 2003, but a little bit.

    And as for Kansas State, young or old head coaches, the athletic department budget is what it is. The money comes from us alums. You underestimate Bill Snyder. But he likes that. I’ll take old and smart over tough and dumb (Pellini), unethical and undisciplined (Mangino) and dumb and dumber (Pinkel) any day. We’ll see you Huskers on the field!

  8. Anonymous says:

    Rainbow Man
    Iowa State has a good coach. Paul Rhoads will be the story of the Big 12 North within four years.

  9. Anonymous says:

    We are making great assumptions that the Big 12 as we know it will stay intact. I can see a Baylor being jettisoned and another southern school such as Arkansas taking their place. I can see a scenario where Missouri leaves for the Big 10 also. Who knows about Texas? The Big 12 needs them more than they need the Big 12(at least that is what they think). I think the realignment that will be taking place will be much more than moving teams around in conferences. When money is the reason you are doing something all it takes is a better offer and you move on to something else.

    As far as Snyder is concerned I am glad he is back. He gives some stability to an unstable situation. Who else would take that job right now? Hopefully he can build something that the next coach can run with. I definitely see a more disciplined team out on the field.

  10. Anonymous says:

    A few thoughts come to mind…

    1. GH, you forgot to remove your scarlet glasses before sitting down to the keyboard, my friend. Here

  11. Anonymous says:

    KSU-ISU was the best football game played in Arrowhead Stadium this fall.

    Sad, isn’t it?

  12. Anonymous says:

    Rainbow Man,
    Agree about Rhoads being the story of the B12 North within four years. The story will go something like “Rhoads Out at ISU” or “Cyclones Fire Another Lousy Coach”. What the hell were they thinking when they ran off McCarney?

  13. Anonymous says:

    Greg, I don’t think you’ve actually gone 100% negative on KSU, but your comments make it seem like you have. I feel like I’m reading a KU Star columnist. Something has negatively skewed your opinion of the program. Give Snyder at least one more recruiting class before you dig the grave of our football program. Lots of highly ranked kids are looking at us in the class of 2010. I’m encouraged, but I’m also not a kool-aid drinker. He’s got a lot of work ahead of him. But, as we know, if anyone can do it….

  14. Anonymous says:

    How exactly is Arrowhead a “Road Game” for KSU?

  15. Anonymous says:

    And it’s quite a stretch to call Greg a KU Homer. Have you seen the stuff he writes about Mangino? He can’t stand him. Greg tries to be impartial but, like all of us, he has a school and that school is Nebraska.

  16. Anonymous says:

    Uncle Dick
    We need Texas in the Big 12 if for nothing else, to improve the quality of cheerleaders in the conference. KU, MU,and OU usually have some nice ‘tang; Texas brings some nice looking tacos to the table, but have you seen some of the rest of these gals? No wonder most of the teams went to artificial turf. Keeps the heifers from grazin’.

  17. Anonymous says:


    Yes, KU’s win over Southern Miss. was closer than it probably should have been. But Southern Miss. IS a good team, despite that they laid an egg the following Thursday.

    People like you probaby laughed at KU’s win over a non-impressive UTEP team. Well UTEP just beat #12 Houston. And Duke, another KU opponent who most probably think is crap, just played toe-to-toe with Virginia Tech.

    I think Snyder will get the Cats to 7-8 wins over the next few years. KU, MU and Nebraske are ALL a couple steps ahead of K-State. Maybe K-State can get to the level that they compete with KU, MU & NU….but even if they do…that’s no guarantee they’ll win the North. It’s a LONG road for the Wildcats.

  18. Anonymous says:

    Collective Noses
    Uncle Dick – While your comment isn’t necessarily appropriate or within the scope of this conversation it did make me laugh and I honestly can’t find any fault in the argument. Carry on.

  19. Anonymous says:

    ‘To those who question where I

  20. Anonymous says:

    Check that, correction on my post above, I think Pinkel started 29-30 at MU, not 29-35.

  21. Anonymous says:

    Collective Noses
    dp – Great post. Your point made me think about the Chiefs and the collective lack of expectations going into the season, but now everyone is in utter disbelief that the Chiefs haven’t won any games. Give the coach(es) some time to instill their players and system and then we can judge. Building football programs doesn’t happen overnight.

    One key difference, of course, is that Snyder is likable enough where Todd and Scott’s approach seems to rub people the wrong way more often than not.

  22. Anonymous says:

    How can we be comparing Snyder’s second coming to Mangino’s and Pinkel’s rookie years in the Big 12? Mangino was a first-time head coach and Pink was coming from Toledo.

    I think Snyder is one of college football’s all-time great coaches. A case can be made that what he did where he did it is the greatest coaching job in any sport.

    I was and am simply dead against his rehiring. It was a mistake, unless KSU is happy being the trap team of the North — the team everyone in the conference hopes to avoid losing to. K-State needed to hire the NEXT Bill Snyder, not the one who currently holds that once esteemed title. Would that have taken more work? More time? More everything? Yes.

    If you want K-State football to be competitive with their B12 North brothers in 2011, you too would be rooting for their football program to turn the corner instead of running in circles.

  23. Anonymous says:

    nick: I think you’re being too defensive. My beef is with GH — not your hawks.

    My point was about coaching. Considering the current talent, the 3 of 5 games away from Manhattan, and the nascent stage of the new system, 3-2/1-0 isn’t too bad for this K-State team — and I attribute that to great coaching. On the flip side, with all of ku’s talent, they struggled at home to put away a Southern Miss team that they *should* have handled with *relative* ease.

    Net net: GH is all over K-State’s Snyder rehire as the worst possible move, my point is that it’s hard enough to do well WITH talent. You’ve got to be a master to pull off wins like Saturday’s by getting the D2 talent that is on K-State’s two-deep to overachieve. Throw in some awesome assistants and good recruiters, and you’ve got the makin’s for a comeback.

    And yes, I know it will be difficult to return to the top of the division — I remember that from the four seasons that K-State has won it (30% of all Big 12 seasons).

  24. Anonymous says:

    You Wildcats are pretty gung ho after defeating a team that has won a total of 3 conference games in the past 4 seasons. On a neutral field no less. And they’re back?

  25. Anonymous says:

    Greg- the reason I brought up Mangino and Pinkel’s rookie years at their schools is just to illustrate the point that you can’t say a coach is going to be a success or failure until they have 3-4 years under their belt. If you look at Mangino and Pinkel’s first 4-5 years, there’s not much to get excited about. I’d argue K-State is in about the same place now that KU and MU were when their current coaches took over…bottom 3 in the North.

    I agree 100% that K-State should have gone out and tried to find the next Snyder like you say, but after all the mistakes made with Prince hire (and there were many), they had to play it conservative and hire someone credible- who can you get to come to K-State right now? Who would have been your choice?

    (Sidebar- I say the same thing every year about the Royals…we need more pop at the 3-4-5 spots in the order, but who were the Royals going to go get last summer, Teixeira? Ah, no…)

    I’d love to see Patterson from TCU, but that ship may have sailed after the first time Snyder retired and I don’t know if he wants it.

    Time will tell, right now I just want to see the Cats improve a little game by game and hopefully Snyder can bring some stability. I think they have two winnable games left (CU and A&M at home), I’d be happy with 5 wins this year, considering our lack of talent at QB, OL, LB in particular.

  26. Anonymous says:

    You say, “with all of ku

  27. Anonymous says:

    Here’s a question for KSU fans. Who would you rather be: KSU in their currect situation with Snyder as coach for the next 5 years or KU in their current situation with Mangino for the next 5 years?

  28. Anonymous says:

    nick: So let me get this straight…

    You say: #80 Southern Miss, who ku struggled to beat at home, is “a good team,”

    THEN you say: #75 Iowa State, who K-State struggled to beat, is “a sucky team.”

    Looks like maybe we’re both biased.

    (And you’re still making this about ku. It’s not.)

  29. Anonymous says:

    Re: mrolathe’s post above…who said K-State is back after the win against ISU? I don’t see any Wildcat fans that are ‘gung ho’ as you put it. Show me one person who has said either of those things.

    As to your question would I rather have Snyder now or Mangino now? Like my post says above, it’s too early to tell. It’ll be interesting the next two years to see what kind of talent Snyder can bring in and if Mangino can replace Reesing and Meier…

  30. Anonymous says:


    I could give a rat’s ass what ISU and Southern Miss are ranked. You’re implying that Mangino isn’t a great because despite “all the talent” he has, he struggled to beat Southern Miss. Where’s “all the talent” you refer to?

    The talent KU has is coached-up talent.

    Only time will tell if the man you bow to every morning can recreate his miracle in Manhattan. The landscape is HUGELY different than Snyder’s first go around when KU and Missouri sucked. I think Snyder will get K-State back to 8 win seasons. But anything more than that might be a Purple dream.

  31. Anonymous says:

    dp-are you saying that all of KU’s success the past 3 years is b/c if reesing & Meier? I don’t think that is giving Mangino enough credit. He, like all coaches, has to deal with replacing talent every year. And so far he has. Remember Whitimore? Cornish? McAnderson? Gordon? The 3 linebackers that included the defensive player of the year in the Big 12? Talib? Collins? Henry? I know that KSU fans think this is a flash in the pan but Kansas isn’t going to drop to 6th in the North anytime soon. The talent that is coming to KU is getting better and better every year.

  32. Anonymous says:

    Jack Harry
    Are not these KSU seniors Snyder’s freshmen recuits?…not even including any redshirts.

  33. Anonymous says:

    All this talk about KS, KSU and MU is kind of redundant. Winning the North doesn’t mean shit until you can beat the South in the Championship. That’s the ticket to a National Championship. When the NCAA finally abandons the BCS and develops a REAL playoff system it’s going to sting in Lawrence, Columbia and Manhattan. Until then we can all homer for the school of our choice even though it really doesn’t matter.

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